Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/09/1993 03:00 PM House HES
| Audio | Topic |
|---|
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES
STANDING COMMITTEE
March 9, 1993
3:00 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Rep. Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair
Rep. Con Bunde, Co-Chair
Rep. Gary Davis, Vice Chair
Rep. Al Vezey
Rep. Pete Kott
Rep. Harley Olberg
Rep. Bettye Davis
Rep. Irene Nicholia
Rep. Tom Brice
MEMBERS ABSENT
None
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
*HB 156: "An Act establishing the educational facilities
maintenance and construction fund; and providing
for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
*HB 157: "An Act making special appropriations to the
educational facilities maintenance and
construction fund and the mental health trust
income account; and providing for an effective
date."
HEARD AND HELD
HB 82: "An Act relating to school construction grants and
major maintenance grants to school districts;
providing for school district participation in the
cost of school construction and major maintenance;
creating a major maintenance grant fund; and
providing for an effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
HB 83: "An Act making appropriations for construction and
major maintenance of schools; and providing for an
effective date."
HEARD AND HELD
(* First public hearing.)
WITNESS REGISTER
SHELBY STASTNY, Director
Office of Management and Budget
P.O. Box 110020
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0020
Phone: (907) 225-3568
Position statement: Testified in favor of HB 156
GARY BADER, Director
Division of Administrative Services
Department of Education
801 W. 10th St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1894
Phone: (907) 465-2875
Position statement: Testified in favor of HB 82 and HB 83
DON GILMAN, Mayor
Kenai Peninsula Borough
144 N. Binkley
Soldotna, Alaska 99669
Phone: (907) 262-4441
Position statement: Testified in favor of HB 156
JIM BALDWIN
Assistant Attorney General
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: (907) 225-3600
Position statement: Answered questions on HB 156
CLAUDIA DOUGLAS, President
National Education Association-Alaska
114 Second St.
Juneau, Alaska 99801
Phone: (907) 586-3090
Position statement: Testified in favor of HB 156
DENNIS GREGORY
NEA-Alaska
P.O. Box 3804
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Phone: (907) 745-4871 work
Phone: (907) 746-0199 home
Position statement: Testified in favor of HB 156
CHARLIE CRANGLE
P.O. Box 3394
Seward, Alaska 99664
Phone: (907) 224-3356 work
Phone: (907) 224-5441 home
Position statement: Testified in favor of HB 156
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: HB 156
SHORT TITLE: PUBLIC SCHOOLS & PUBLIC FACILITIES FUND
BILL VERSION: SSHB 156
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act establishing the educational facilities
maintenance and construction fund; and providing for an
effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/15/93 346 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/15/93 346 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/15/93 346 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV)
2/15/93
02/15/93 346 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/22/93 411 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE
INTRODUCED-NEW TITLE
02/22/93 411 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/22/93 411 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (REV)
2/22/93
02/22/93 411 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/23/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/02/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/02/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 157
SHORT TITLE: APPROP: PUBLIC SCHOOLS/FACILITIES FUND
BILL VERSION: SSHB 157
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act making special appropriations to the
educational facilities maintenance and construction fund and
the mental health trust income account; and providing for an
effective date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
02/15/93 347 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
02/15/93 347 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/15/93 347 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/22/93 412 (H) SPONSOR SUBSTITUTE
INTRODUCED-NEW TITLE
02/22/93 412 (H) HES, JUDICIARY, FINANCE
02/22/93 412 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/23/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/02/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
03/02/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 82
SHORT TITLE: SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION & MAINTENANCE GRANTS
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act relating to school construction grants and
major maintenance grants to school districts; providing for
school district participation in the cost of school
construction and major maintenance; creating a major
maintenance grant fund; and providing for an effective
date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 131 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 132 (H) HES, FINANCE
01/22/93 132 (H) -FISCAL NOTE (DOE) 1/22/93
01/22/93 132 (H) -2 ZERO FNS (DOT, REV) 1/22/93
01/22/93 132 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/09/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
BILL: HB 83
SHORT TITLE: APPROP:SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION GRANT FUND
BILL VERSION:
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
TITLE: "An Act making appropriations for construction and
major maintenance of schools; and providing for an effective
date."
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/22/93 134 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/22/93 134 (H) HES, FINANCE
01/22/93 134 (H) -REVENUE FN (REV) 1/22/93
01/22/93 134 (H) -ZERO FISCAL NOTE (DOT)
01/22/93 134 (H) GOVERNOR'S TRANSMITTAL LETTER
02/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
02/09/93 (H) MINUTE(HES)
03/09/93 (H) HES AT 03:00 PM CAPITOL 106
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE 93-31, SIDE A
Number 000
VICE-CHAIR G. DAVIS called the meeting to order at 3:10 p.m.
and announced he would chair the meeting in the absence of
either co-chair. He noted members present. He announced
the meeting calendar. He noted that the meeting was being
teleconferenced to Anchorage, Bethel, Delta Junction, Nome,
Soldotna, Tok and Valdez. He brought HB 156 to the table.
(Rep. Olberg arrived at 3:12 p.m.)
HB 156 - PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND PUBLIC FACILITIES FUND
HB 157 - APPROP: PUBLIC SCHOOLS/FACILITIES FUND
Number 060
SHELBY STASTNY, DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND
BUDGET, OFFICE OF THE GOVERNOR, testified in Juneau on
HB 156 and HB 157. He said the governor and Department of
Education have long been concerned with deteriorating
conditions at some state schools, and with the inability of
the annual appropriations of about $25 million to fund even
all construction projects on the priority one list, let
alone the $800 million in projects on the entire list. He
said he had been in consultation with the department and the
administration to address the situation this year, and
considered as a funding source the permanent fund's earnings
reserve, with partial matching funds from school districts.
MR. STASTNY explained that shortly after introducing
legislation to that end, the attorney general announced a
settlement with British Petroleum (BP) of long-standing tax
disputes, in which the state received $630 million; which
was almost exactly what was needed for a four-year school
renovation effort. Mr. Stastny said HB 156 represented an
effort to spend that settlement on school construction and
maintenance. A sponsor substitute recognized that six
percent of the money must go to the Mental Health Trust,
making $592.2 million available for a school construction
fund.
Number 119
MR. STASTNY acknowledged that future legislatures could
spend the money even if it was partitioned off in such a
fund, but the partition was a gesture of good faith
intended to fund school construction over four years. He
recommended spreading the work over four years, as the state
had insufficient construction forces to do it all in one
year.
Number 142
REP. BRICE asked if the governor had included using the
money to bring the technology in schools up to some
standard.
MR. STASTNY answered no, the division felt strongly that
deferred maintenance and unhoused students were more
important than technology in the schools. He noted that
HB 156 and HB 157 would free up other money for the state
that might be used for that purpose.
Number 162
REP. NICHOLIA asked if the governor had considered spending
the settlement money on rural water and sewers, and whether
he would consider an amendment to the bill.
MR. STASTNY replied no, the governor would not consider such
an amendment to HB 156, as the bill was aimed at a specific
problem with schools; and once money was diverted for other
purposes, the specific problem would go unaddressed. But he
noted that the governor had included about $42 million in
the last two budgets, and in the current budget, for rural
water and sewer problems.
Number 182
REP. NICHOLIA asked about placing some of the BP settlement
money into the earnings reserve account.
MR. STASTNY said he believed the money was available and not
to be used for the earnings reserve. He equated the state's
school situation with a family facing a dire need for food
and shelter, and considering whether to fix the roof and buy
food or put the money into a savings account.
Number 190
REP. VEZEY asked Mr. Stastny's opinion of why the state
needed a schools facility maintenance fund when the
Education Endowment Fund had already been established.
MR. STASTNY said that the Education Endowment Fund had been
established with the intent that only the interest would be
spent. The schools facility maintenance fund would be set
up and would see its principal expended to build schools.
REP. VEZEY asked whether the source of funding for the
schools facility maintenance fund was all royalty
settlements or just the BP settlement.
MR. STASTNY said that the schools maintenance fund was to be
set up only with the BP settlement money, not any past or
future settlements.
Number 215
REP. VEZEY asked whether HB 156 and HB 157 would be voided
if the money from the BP settlement had to go to a
constitutional earnings reserve account.
MR. STASTNY answered yes.
Number 217
REP. BRICE asked whether the attorney general had issued a
written opinion on the question of whether the money from
the BP settlement should go to a constitutional earnings
reserve account.
MR. STASTNY said that he had, and it could be made available
to the committee. The opinion stated that the money from
the BP settlement should not be deposited in the
constitutional budget reserve because it came from an
administrative settlement before the formal hearing process.
(Rep. B. Davis arrived at 3:20 p.m.)
Number 230
CHAIR G. DAVIS invited Gary Bader to testify.
GARY BADER, DIRECTOR OF THE DIVISION OF ADMINISTRATIVE
SERVICES, DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION, testified in support of
HB 82 and HB 83, which would receive money if HB 156 and
HB 157 were passed. He said HB 82 would establish two
categories of grants: construction and major maintenance
grants, which would build on the existing school funding
process known as the HB 37 process, and would establish a
requirement that school districts match state grants with
their own funds, ranging from 5 percent to 40 percent of the
state grant for FY94, depending on the wealth of the
districts. That matching percentage, for schools with more
than $100,000 average daily membership (ADM), would increase
5 percent each year. The match for Rural Education
Attendance Areas (REAAs) would be set at 3.8 percent,
phased in over four years, increasing by nothing in FY94, 1
percent in FY95, 2.4 percent in FY96, and 3.8 percent in
FY97.
Number 260
MR. BADER spoke to HB 83, including 24 projects the
Department of Education had classified as health-life-safety
projects, and two previously funded projects totalling $6
million, making a total of $771 million in projects
submitted by school districts. Section 1 of HB 83
appropriates $107,688,000 to the school construction grant
fund for all priority one projects submitted, and the first
11 unhoused student programs, he said. Mr. Bader said HB 83
also appropriates $42,312,000 for the major maintenance fund
to deal with category three and four before they became
health-life-safety projects.
REP. G. DAVIS apologized for letting Mr. Bader testify on
HB 82 and HB 83, when discussion had begun on HB 156 and
HB 157.
Number 295
REP. VEZEY asked for a definition of ADM.
MR. BADER answered that ADM meant "average daily
membership."
REP. VEZEY asked for examples of communities with "full
value" of property less than $100,000 per ADM, as referred
to in HB 82, page 2.
MR. BADER answered that the Railbelt Denali Borough, St.
Mary's, Hydaburg, Klawock, Nenana, Kake and Hoonah were
communities with less than $100,000 in taxable real value
per student.
REP. VEZEY asked which communities had between $100,000 and
$200,000 worth of property per student.
MR. BADER answered they were Tanana, Galena, Yakutat, Lake
and Peninsula Borough, Craig, Nome, Northwest Arctic and
Mat-Su.
REP. VEZEY asked which communities had between $200,000 and
$600,000 worth of property per student.
MR. BADER answered they were Fairbanks, Aleutians East,
Dillingham, Wrangell, Anchorage, Petersburg, Haines, Sitka,
Juneau and more.
REP. VEZEY asked which communities had more than $600,000
value of property per student.
MR. BADER answered they were Bristol Bay, Unalaska, Valdez,
and the North Slope Borough.
Number 320
(Rep. Bunde arrived at 3:28 p.m.)
REP. G. DAVIS proposed taking testimony on HB 156 and
HB 157, and attempted to yield the chair to Rep. Bunde, who
declined.
Number 354
DON GILMAN, MAYOR OF THE KENAI PENINSULA BOROUGH, testified
via teleconference from Soldotna on HB 156 and HB 157. He
said the borough supported state aide for school
construction and maintenance funds. He said the current AS
14.11.05-19 needed to be rewritten, as the current process
was not working for larger school districts. While the
district supported any reasonable funding source, including
bonds, permanent fund undistributed income account, new
taxes, settlements, he said legislators, not school
districts, should make such decisions. He praised the
administration for addressing a major school issue.
Number 374
REP. BUNDE asked Mr. Gilman if he would support any funding
source, including new taxes.
MR. GILMAN answered yes.
REP. BUNDE said Mr. Gilman was a brave man.
CHAIR G. DAVIS, hearing no further public testimony on
HB 156 and HB 157, brought HB 82 and HB 83 to the table.
REP. B. DAVIS asked if the board planned any action on
HB 156 and HB 157.
CHAIR G. DAVIS answered no; the committee would just hold
hearings. Hearing no other requests to testify, he invited
Mr. Gilman to testify on HB 82 and 83.
HB 82 - SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION MAINTENANCE GRANTS
HB 83 - APPROP: PUBLIC SCHOOLS/FACILITIES FUND
Number 394
MR. GILMAN said that HB 84 did not go far enough in changing
school funding. He said the state should scrap the HB 37
funding process for schools as too bulky and time-consuming.
He said he supported creation of different two funds: for
school construction and for major maintenance. He said
every school district in the state had maneuvered to get its
projects to the top of the list, and much of the $770
million in requests for FY94 was not truly what the
districts needed and, if school districts were honest with
themselves and the state, they would establish different
funding priorities if given the chance. He expressed
support for matching funding on a sliding scale based on
ADM, but opposed the 5 percent per year increase in the
sliding scale, because it would encourage districts to hurry
to have their projects built in the earlier years, and
because the public would balk at voting for school
construction bonds without being sure of the final cost for
the work.
Number 442
REP. BUNDE asked Mr. Gilman what he would consider a fair
maximum local contribution.
MR. GILMAN said that many districts felt that a 30 percent
local contribution, or a sliding scale up to 30 percent, was
fair.
REP.BUNDE asked what would be a fair minimum, and noted that
the bill called for a minimum of 3.8 percent phased in over
several years.
MR. GILMAN said he did not know, as he did not know the
financial situation of the REAAs, though he knew it was hard
for them to come up with cash for matching funds. He said
the REAAs should be required to make some matching
contribution, either in sweat equity, land, or something to
ensure some local contribution.
Number 465
CHAIR G. DAVIS ended discussion on HB 82 and HB 83 and said
no action was planned on those two bills during the meeting.
Number 474
JIM BALDWIN, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, DEPARTMENT OF LAW,
testified from Juneau via teleconference answering
questions. He said the department had issued a written
opinion saying the BP settlement did not have to be
deposited in the constitutional budget reserve fund. He
pointed out that other bills pending in the legislature
would have the opposite effect. He noted the question of
whether some of the appropriation under HB 157 would have to
go into the mental health trust. He cautioned the committee
top avoid making double deposits to the trust through
HB 157. He said the attorney general had asked him to make
clear that the current legislature should not feel bound by
a previous legislature's policy decision to deposit six
percent of general fund income into the mental health trust
income account, as provided in AS 37.14.011, and that the
actual amount of contribution could be varied up or down.
CHAIR G. DAVIS acknowledged Mr. Baldwin's advice, and noted
that committee members had been given copies of the attorney
general's 21-page opinion on the issue. Chair Davis said,
"It seems strange to me, not being an attorney, I read that
statute and I thought it was pretty plain language, and I
feel my interpretation does belong there, although I have 21
pages of testimony here by our experienced attorneys that
says I'm wrong. I'll be looking forward to reading that."
Number 530
REP. BUNDE commented, "Not really a question, thank you, Mr.
Chairman, just something to clarify, perhaps. I'm not an
attorney, but I am the chairman of this committee, and that
money will not be used to move a bill out of this
committee."
REP. VEZEY asked what would happen if the legislature passed
HB 82 and HB 83, and the measure were later challenged in
court, and if the Alaska Supreme Court were to order the BP
settlement money to be deposited into the budget reserve.
Number 540
MR. BALDWIN answered that he understood that HB 156 would
create a reserve fund into which HB 157 would appropriate
funds. He said he did not know of further plans to spend
from the reserve fund. He said under the bill, money is
transferred to the mental health trust income account. He
said that, if Rep. Vezey's scenario were to pass, that
"there will have to be some readjusting of the books. In
other words, revenues would have to be deposited to make up
the difference, if amounts are expended from the reserve
fund. And what we've said in our opinion basically is that
the constitutional budget reserve fund should be interpreted
in a way that leaves all valid dedicated funds intact. So
to the extent that the mental health trust income account is
a valid dedicated fund, the constitutional budget reserve
fund should not be interpreted in a way to interrupt any
amount of revenue that would go to that fund.
So under statute, if six percent is mandated to go there,
and it is considered a dedicated fund, then that money would
have properly gone there under our interpretation (of the)
constitutional budget reserve fund, and I don't see that the
supreme court interpreting the constitutional budget reserve
fund as being an implied amendment to the other dedicated
funds which are properly created in the constitution, for
example, the Alaska permanent fund, I don't see them doing
that, so I don't think there's going to be a lot of
disruption on that part. And to the extent that amounts are
not expended from the reserve fund, which is created in 156,
then the legislature would have the option of going back and
transferring the money from the reserve fund to the
constitutional budget reserve fund. So I'm not sure a whole
lot of chaos would result. It only, it's potentially the
amount expended and removed from the control of the state
treasurer."
Number 570
REP. VEZEY asked whether Mr. Baldwin had said that if the
supreme court overruled the attorney general's opinion, if
the money was deposited in other statutorily created funds
before that decision, that they would not have to be
restored.
MR. BALDWIN said that it would have to be restored, but he
agreed with Mr. Stastny that the reserve fund created by
HB 157 would be under the legislature's complete control and
could be appropriated for any purpose, including being
returned to the constitutional budget reserve fund if
necessary. He said the department would defend its opinion
vigorously.
Number 585
REP. VEZEY said he had been disappointed by supreme court
action before. He asked whether the state would have to
expend general funds to reimburse school districts if they
should issue bonds and begin building schools under the
provisions of HB 156 and HB 157, but then later saw the
supreme court overturn the bills' spending plans.
MR. BALDWIN said he could not answer the question without
more information, but the state should not promise to
reimburse municipalities' should they decide to issue bonds
under the bills, and everyone should understand the inherent
risk of potential litigation.
TAPE 93-31, SIDE B
Number 000
MR. BALDWIN said the department had hoped the legislature
would have, in the interim before the current session, have
come up with bills to interpret the constitution in a way
that was agreeable to both the administration and the
legislature, and such actions were in the offing. He said
the department was trying to remove some of the doubt that
is dependant upon any possible litigation.
Number 045
CLAUDIA DOUGLAS, PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL EDUCATION
ASSOCIATION-ALASKA, testified in Juneau supporting HB 156
and HB 157. She referred to a position paper on the bills
she had sent to committee members. MS. DOUGLAS said, "I
just think it's a courageous step on the part of our
governor and the administration. It's forward thinking in
terms of children and the future of our state. It's a
wonderful opportunity for this legislature to provide new
opportunities for communities and children. It's
interesting to me that the debate is not over so much
whether these funds are needed. I mean, if you go -- a week
ago I was in a school in Anchorage that was East High School
where they have big buckets that's collecting water that's
dripping from the ceilings. And you can go to communities
in Anchorage and Fairbanks where you see portables that are
hooked up on the side of buildings where kids are having to
go from one part of the main building to a portable unit.
You know, you look at small schools that have, for example,
in Fairbanks, the, they don't really have a gymnasium, they
have a multi-purpose room that has everything from the
lunchroom program to any activities they have.
"And so I guess I just have a real concern that I think that
again we're going to be hung up on whether we're going to
save money or somehow put it into a fund that maybe should
be or shouldn't be, rather than looking at the real needs of
children and communities of this state. And so I just ask
all of you as representatives of our communities to
seriously and thoughtfully look at ways we can get this
money into our communities in a very, very, positive,
forward-thinking, futuristic way of helping provide the best
that we can give the kids in this state.
"So, I know that it's a complex decision, and I just hope
that you'll maybe be courageous and make that decision to
put that money into some funds that are desperately needed
in communities. Thank you."
Number 090
REP. BUNDE said, "Thank you, Ms. Douglas. I can assure you
that -- I'll assume the chair again, Rep. Davis has to leave
-- as chair here I will be very courageous and put the money
where it belongs, in the constitutional budget reserve.
Having said that, let me assure you that I believe you, that
all these school needs do exist. It's just that this money
isn't available to meet them. We have to find the money
somewhere else."
Number 106
(Rep. Brice departed at 3:59 p.m.)
DENNIS GREGORY, A TEACHER AND MEMBER OF NEA-ALASKA said, "My
name is Dennis Gregory. I'm a teacher. I am a member of
NEA-Alaska. I'm here not at taxpayers' expense, and I'm
here on my own time. This is my spring break. It's a
little bit hard to speak after the comments of the chairman.
In our school district we have the same kind of bucket
problems, in Wasilla High School, Wasilla Junior High
School. We have a desperate need for new buildings. We're
overcrowded. We have 60 percent of our buildings over
capacity. We're in a position where we have portables in
most of our buildings. I teach at one of the smaller
buildings, and next year we will have portables. We face a
real desperate need here. We have a possibility, an
opening, an opportunity. And yet in the middle of public
testimony, we hear from the chairman of this committee he
will not allow it. Excusing my upset and concern about
this, I think that's quite arrogant. It's been said that
power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and I
think that's what's happened here, sir."
CHAIR BUNDE responded, "If you would care for a response, I
certainly would. I am a life-long teacher, and my wife is a
life-long teacher. I understand the needs of education. I
also understand that we don't solve the needs of education
by having a one-time only, get-rich-quick scheme. And five
or ten years down the road, when the state will have less
money, how are you going to fund your bucket problem then?"
Number 145
CHAIR BUNDE continued, "You see there may be a misconception
about the constitutional budget reserve. I didn't create
that. I read the constitution; I think we're hearing
attorney opinions that are playing semantic games with us.
And it says the money goes there. Then, if the majority of
your legislators want that money spent on education, it
takes a supermajority and we can do it. Have to pay it
back, but we can do it. But, I would disagree with you.
The power that you refer to comes from 9,000-plus registered
voters that have told me, `Get state spending in line.
Don't do another get-rich-quick scheme. Find a little pot
of money, spend it and put off the day of reckoning to
another day.' In my opinion, that money isn't available
directly to education. It's certainly available to
education or any other state cause that requires funding,
with a majority vote from the legislature. Now, I'm sorry
if you take personal offense. None was intended. I'm
saying, let's not kid ourselves that we can spend ourselves
out of the deficit that the state is facing. Obviously, one
of the highest priorities for me is investing in education.
I strongly ascribe to that notion that, if you think
education is expensive, try ignorance. But I can't do it in
good conscience on anything less than a fiscally-sound
manner. Something that will cause us even greater problems
some five or 10 years down the road is not a way to solve
Alaska's educational problems. We need to fund education,
no question about it. I see the portable, I see the
maintenance problems. There isn't any ... I'll be happy to
do it. However, I have to live by the constitution, as we
all do, and that money isn't available directly to
education."
Number 182
REP. NICHOLIA said, "I would just like to state for the
record that I do not agree with the chairman of the
committee, that I feel that if you don't take care of the
problems, the construction and the maintenance problems now,
then 10 years and 20 years down the road, you're going to
find a worse problem, and it's going to cost the state more
money. And that is why I disagree with what you just said.
Thank you."
Number 200
CHARLIE CRANGLE, A TEACHER FROM SEWARD, testified in Juneau
in support of HB 156 and HB 157, saying that if Chair Bunde
believes the BP settlement is not available for school
construction, then he should support increasing the
instructional unit formula to $64,000 instead of $61,000.
He said teachers were looking for an answer, and possibly
were asking the legislature to do something
unconstitutional. He predicted more social problems later
if schools were not funded now, and said teachers would keep
knocking on doors until something was done.
(Rep. Brice returned at 4:07 p.m.)
Number 234
CHAIR BUNDE informed all teachers listening that for each
teacher seeking for more money, there were 10 other citizens
saying that you cannot solve education problems by throwing
money at them. He said there is a need of additional
educational investment in Alaska, in addition to the current
funding level. He stated that schools cost $3 million per
day to run, and his mandate has been not to increase state
spending. He asked teachers to tell him what other social
program they would have the state cut, such as roads,
prisons, or health services. He said he would even support
more taxes if that was the will of his constituents. He
said the state was approaching the point at which residents
would have to pay for the services they want.
Number 258
REP. B. DAVIS replied, "I believe that we all have the same
concern here. We care about education. It depends, I
guess, on what your train of thought is where we should get
the money, and I think that should not be the concern right
now. As the HESS Committee, we serve on this committee,
even though we want to be fiscal conservatives and make sure
that we do the right things. In the end, it's not this
committee that's going to decide where the finances will
come from. In the end, all bills that has this kind of note
on it will go to the Finance Committee. They will then, in
turn, decide if they think they should bring that to us or
make the adjustments. I think what we need to be
concentrating on right now, is this a valid bill? Do we
need to look at this and say, `Yeah, our schools are falling
apart and we need to come up with some money for
construction. And where the money's going to come from is
an issue that we will decide later.' I can't blame people
for coming up saying, `Yeah, you got $630 million, or $680
million, and you ought to take that money and use it.'
Because all our constituents are telling us that, not just
educators, but other people are coming saying use it for
other projects. But in the end, we have to decide if we're
going to use that money from some of the savings that we
have, or from the general funds money that comes in every
year. But we don't have to decide that here and now. I
think what we ought to be sticking to is, are these bills
valid ...?"
REP. B. DAVIS said that the need remained for school
maintenance and construction, and that the need would
increase in the future as state revenues declined. She
encouraged committee members to return to the issue at a
later time after having considered that the committee should
deal with school construction needs, and not how to pay for
them. She disputed that the state lacked the money, saying
it was a matter of deciding where to take it from. She said
not all the money from the BP settlement had to go to
education, and she applauded the governor's effort to
address the issue. She said the windfall income was a
welcome surprise, and expressed the hope that the state
would receive more.
Number 312
CHAIR BUNDE thanked Rep. B. Davis for her opinion and said
that some people believe that it is fiscally irresponsible
to spend money they don't have.
Number 317
REP. VEZEY said that if the legislature appropriated money
unconstitutionally, it could face another issue similar to
the mental health trust lands issue.
Number 330
CHAIR BUNDE said, "I was particularly taken with your idea
of once concrete's poured, what's the state going to do when
they find out they spent the money illegally. And again,
our focus here is not to decide on where that money goes.
Certainly, I think I speak for the committee when we support
and endorse funding of education in a prudent manner. No
problem's ever solved by throwing money on it. But we also
feel, speaking for myself, believe that education needs to
be certainly a priority and well funded. It's not. Is
there further testimony on this bill? I close public
testimony. And for public information, it is not my
intention to hear this bill again in the near future."
CHAIR BUNDE ADJOURNED the meeting at 4:15 p.m.
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